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Post by joeytalent on Apr 11, 2016 7:36:32 GMT
I've got a 250 mile drive tomorrow night. Will grab some pics from the dash cam. Cool, will look forward to seeing them! 
Hope the weather behaves so you can have the roof down lol
Due to an unprecedented combination of leaving work early, making good time and being more organised than anticipated, I didn't end up driving at night at all! Will try and get something tonight - I'm going to find myself a nice wall somewhere and calibrate these headlights. |
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Post by dale1uk on Apr 11, 2016 8:54:37 GMT
Wouldn't it be a lot better to pop to a MOT station and ask them to check/set up the headlights. That way you've got a much better chance of getting an answer as to if the beam is ok/legal for UK driving.
Also don't presume that just because you aren't getting flashed that they must be ok. If I flashed every driver that had badly set up headlights or HIDs fitted in old reflector lenses I'd be constantly flashing my lights. Just because I don't always flash doesn't mean I'm not getting dazzled.
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Post by joeytalent on Apr 11, 2016 10:09:21 GMT
Wouldn't it be a lot better to pop to a MOT station and ask them to check/set up the headlights. That way you've got a much better chance of getting an answer as to if the beam is ok/legal for UK driving. Also don't presume that just because you aren't getting flashed that they must be ok. If I flashed every driver that had badly set up headlights or HIDs fitted in old reflector lenses I'd be constantly flashing my lights. Just because I don't always flash doesn't mean I'm not getting dazzled. I left my dashcam in my car and watched the playback of the last MOT test just for a laugh. The headlight test involved a man standing in front of the car and looking at the headlights whilst it was on the ramp. I'd much rather set it up properly over 25 feet on flat ground so I know it's done properly - which is what I'll be doing tonight once it gets dark. I have no intention of driving around blinding other people, I get annoyed by that on a daily basis already. |
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Post by wannabe on Apr 11, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
I managed to get some photos the other day against a large white wall and they do seem to have a pretty tight cut-off at the top. I'll have to try and upload them later!
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Post by dale1uk on Apr 11, 2016 17:18:17 GMT
Wouldn't it be a lot better to pop to a MOT station and ask them to check/set up the headlights. That way you've got a much better chance of getting an answer as to if the beam is ok/legal for UK driving. Also don't presume that just because you aren't getting flashed that they must be ok. If I flashed every driver that had badly set up headlights or HIDs fitted in old reflector lenses I'd be constantly flashing my lights. Just because I don't always flash doesn't mean I'm not getting dazzled. I left my dashcam in my car and watched the playback of the last MOT test just for a laugh. The headlight test involved a man standing in front of the car and looking at the headlights whilst it was on the ramp. I'd much rather set it up properly over 25 feet on flat ground so I know it's done properly - which is what I'll be doing tonight once it gets dark. I have no intention of driving around blinding other people, I get annoyed by that on a daily basis already. Sounds like you had a crap mot tester tbh. The headlight test has been changed recently and mot testers should be checking them correctly with the right equipment mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-mot-headlamp-aim-test-is-changing/Note, I'm not saying that you guys are fitting these and not giving a Canoe about other road users, more just saying using a wall isn't the best/right way to set up or check the beam. |
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Post by wannabe on Apr 11, 2016 18:06:26 GMT
I left my dashcam in my car and watched the playback of the last MOT test just for a laugh. The headlight test involved a man standing in front of the car and looking at the headlights whilst it was on the ramp. I'd much rather set it up properly over 25 feet on flat ground so I know it's done properly - which is what I'll be doing tonight once it gets dark. I have no intention of driving around blinding other people, I get annoyed by that on a daily basis already. Sounds like you had a crap mot tester tbh. The headlight test has been changed recently and mot testers should be checking them correctly with the right equipment mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-mot-headlamp-aim-test-is-changing/Note, I'm not saying that you guys are fitting these and not giving a canoe about other road users, more just saying using a wall isn't the best/right way to set up or check the beam. Useful link, thank you I note in the PDF, section 1.8 www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/510378/mot-inspection-manual-classes-3-4-5-7-vehicles.pdf#30 that "A flat top or other alternative headlamp dipped beam pattern (not being one of the examples) is acceptable providing all of the beam upper edge, including any “peak” is contained within the appropriate tolerance band." so there should be no reason to fail on that front with these or any of the other generic LED headlights available with flat-top patterns. From what I can work out, the flat-top beam pattern headlights should be tested as the British American type, and should have the cut-off on dipped beam at 0.5% to 2% down from horizontal, with any centre of the beam pattern between 0% and 2% to the left of the centreline? And the hotspot of the main beam should also be below the horizontal line? I guess this would mean that as long as they are pointing slightly left and you have measured the cut-off line on the wall you're using as being very slightly lower than the centre of the headlamps (as measured using a tape measure), you should hopefully be fine come MOT time... |
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Post by dale1uk on Apr 11, 2016 18:13:22 GMT
The thing is using a wall or similar may get you slightly close, but you're still only guessing if its actually within the correct tolerances. It's like tracking your car, you can do it yourself by visually checking it and doing road tests. You'll come away with something that might seem ok, yet stick it on a Hunter machine and you're more likely to find out that your out of spec and far from the optimum settings that's available.
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Post by joeytalent on Apr 11, 2016 18:20:32 GMT
I appreciate what you're saying - perhaps my MOT testing station isn't the most vigorous! I'm going to go and set them up once it gets dark. In all fairness, who here has actually had their lights aligned after fitting lowering gear? It's definitely not something I've thought about before. And FWIW, I did my tracking with some string and axle stands after fitting new track rods, it was bang on according to the local alignment centre  |
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Post by wannabe on Apr 11, 2016 18:40:10 GMT
lol I guess the aim of getting them 'near-as-dammit' yourself is that the MOT tester can then make 'minor adjustments', which I understand they are permitted to do, rather than failing you because you are completely out! I do appreciate our eyes aren't calibrated, though lol |
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Post by dale1uk on Apr 11, 2016 19:21:20 GMT
Haha, I knew tracking with string would be mentioned!
I guess my point is using a wall or similar may be ok if you fitted direct replacements, however you've replaced them with a lights that use a completely different setup. Replacing and aligning another reflector headlight is one thing, doing that with an LED light unit that gives off a different beam pattern is something else. How can you be certain that its even possible for these units to be aligned correctly to match the mot requirements without getting them checked to see if the beam is acceptable?
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Post by wannabe on Apr 11, 2016 20:23:15 GMT
A fair question I think my MOT is due in June (I had forgotten about that, I bet it costs me more money... lol) so I might wait until then to confirm. I barely drive it anyway, and not very often at night, so I shouldn't be searing retinas off all the time! |
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Post by joeytalent on Apr 11, 2016 20:43:30 GMT
Haha, I knew tracking with string would be mentioned! I guess my point is using a wall or similar may be ok if you fitted direct replacements, however you've replaced them with a lights that use a completely different setup. Replacing and aligning another reflector headlight is one thing, doing that with an LED light unit that gives off a different beam pattern is something else. How can you be certain that its even possible for these units to be aligned correctly to match the mot requirements without getting them checked to see if the beam is acceptable? Heh, if I get time this week I'll drop by the friendly MOT man and ask about the beam pattern. If I wasn't happy with what I'd fitted, I'd put the Wipacs back on. This is why I'm happy to keep them for now - this is a view of the lights straight on at the brightest point (as in 3" below the centre of the light at 25' away):  And this is from roughly where a driver of an approaching car would be:  And a car 25' in front (apologies for French content):  |
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Post by wannabe on Apr 11, 2016 22:05:34 GMT
Great pics! You can really see the added width in the third one too Do you find you get a slight bit of vibration in them over poor surfaces / bumps? (where you can see the solid line at the bottom shaking a bit, for example) I do and I'm not sure if it's just an inbuilt shock absorber system (which I presume is why there is a spring at the top corner of the lamp bowls) or if something's broken lol |
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Post by dale1uk on Apr 12, 2016 5:40:39 GMT
Again,I understand that you believe they are fine and don't dazzle other road users, however how many threads gave you read in the past from people who fit Hid bulbs in reflector lenses and claim exactly the same thing..
To be fair these do you good, however there is light bleed above the solid top cut off line which could be an issue. If these can be confirmed as having a UK legal beam pattern I can see these being very popular, however unless they are checked with a proper headlight beam tester everyone's just guessing and their option is bring swayed by the improved light output.
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Post by wannabe on Apr 22, 2016 13:52:46 GMT
Ok, I've managed to get some better pictures of the beam pattern, as below. I would agree that there is a small amount of bleed above the cut-off line, but it really is faint and does not appear to be dazzling. As for whether they will pass an MOT, I will report back when I have mine done in a couple of months (IIRC). These are the dipped beam and main beam patterns - you can see the shape of the round outer edge of the unit upside down in the dipped beam but only faintly; I think this will kind of act as the 'kick-up' that they don't have, meaning road signs will usefully reflect the small amount of light shown above the main cut-off line. The main beam is pretty strong but also pretty tight cut-off, it gives good 'reach' down the road when driving. Dipped vs Main Beam:   Dipped vs Main Beam from the driver's seat:   Dipped vs Main Beam from about 25 feet away, so you can see how the pattern spreads out:   A pretty tight cut-off, although the light levels across the beam are clearly not quite as consistent as the new spangly stuff on brand new cars. I've adjusted them down slightly having ascertained when taking the first pictures that the beam could be pointing down slightly more to be below horizontal, but I've not had a chance to drive at night since then. Will report back when I do! |
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le sigh