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Post by scottydugg on Feb 14, 2020 15:36:34 GMT
I've read these make the biggest difference to the chassis stiffness, even more so than the chassis rail stiffeners. I've already got a Roll Bar, Frame Rail Stiffeners and front wing braces.
Anyone got any fitted? How are they to live with day to day?
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Post by Zed. on Feb 14, 2020 16:10:05 GMT
to my way of thinking, the underfloor 'frame-rail' things are like the 'emperor's new clothes' as they're too low down / below the structure to stop any twist  'door-bars' triangulate the rear of the car to the 'A' pillar area (if made & fitted correctly?) so should strengthen the structure and hopefully add some minor crash / impact resistance  hopefully anyway  Rich. (intending to make doorbars IF I cannot get the rollcage I want...) |
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Post by thruxton on Feb 14, 2020 16:39:11 GMT
That's a good point Rich.
Has anyone in anyway whatsoever quantified the supposed stiffening effect of them.
Other than, oh that "feels" as though the car is stiffer.
Having myself never thought, bugger, this cars all floppy I know my view point might be biased to...... they are a load of conkers!
But I'm prepared to be educated to the validity of them.
Regards.
Rich.
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Door Bars
Feb 14, 2020 18:26:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by richa on Feb 14, 2020 18:26:16 GMT
Hi there, I have a set on my mk1 made by Russell on this forum, I do not have frame rails but found fitting these made quite an impressive difference to the car - it’s hard to quantify of course but when I jacked the car up before and tried to open and close the door it was very difficult, but with the door bars fitted it opens and closes easily, so the car must be flexing less in that area, to my mind anyway! Hope that’s of some use  |
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Post by wannabe on Feb 14, 2020 19:01:35 GMT
V6's car has, I think, all possible stiffening things on it - it is super-tight, nothing moves or rattles  Although the hardtop helps, I'm sure!
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Post by V6 on Feb 14, 2020 19:23:23 GMT
I had a standard mk1 which had an exceptional mint shell when I got it. I also thought it was "fine" back then. So a good basis for comparison.
After having a GCF rear cage and door bars fitted it was like driving an entiery different car. All of a sudden I realised what all the fuss was about. The first corner taken slowly at maybe 40mph was enough for me to go "wow". The contrast was not subtle.
From there i was hooked. The stiffer the better. I soon added Garagestar wing braces, upper and lower engine bay braces, Delrin door bushes, bolted the hardtop on permenently, Skid Nation butterfly brace.
It doesn't wobble!
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Door Bars
Feb 14, 2020 20:05:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by Rickster on Feb 14, 2020 20:05:03 GMT
How do you get in and out with door bars and roof on
Even without door bars I struggle if the roofs up!!!
I am 6ft and old!🤣
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Post by V6 on Feb 14, 2020 21:32:45 GMT
I don't even think about it - easy! I had an elise back in the day which was much harder as it was lower with large sills. Don't over think it. Just buy them |
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Post by Vindi (Russell) on Feb 14, 2020 23:44:26 GMT
This reminds me, I really need to make some more! I'm biased obviously, but I've always felt they made a lot more difference than the chassis rail protectors. I'll have a think if there's any way to measure the difference while driving ...
Russell
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Post by wannabe on Feb 15, 2020 0:43:59 GMT
There'll be a manufacturer out there with a torsional twisting resistance tester thingy (technical term  ) but I'm not sure that sort of thing is open to us Great Unwashed  haha V6's car is amazing in terms of solidity and lack of rattles - the small plastic aftermarket fan on the cage behind the seat rattling very slightly is the loudest thing in the passenger compartment! (Well, if you ignore the screaming and the wall of engine sounds lol) |
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Post by thruxton on Feb 15, 2020 9:24:15 GMT
Agreed, as I'm sure Rich does.......
But ..
Both Rich and I are asking about the frame rails only and most importantly, in isolation..
Regards.
Rich.
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Post by V6 on Feb 15, 2020 9:48:08 GMT
Wannabe - I found that rattle! It wasn't the fans at all. It was six small nylock nuts with loose washers under each one. Hybrid had never tightened them up after swapping the fuel pump I suspect. They were to hold the metal plate trims on the parcel shelf around the roll cage holes. Zero rattles now. Just the purring engine. Ok screaming exploding engine |
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Post by V6 on Feb 15, 2020 9:50:25 GMT
Frame rails only... GCF said ages ago he tested the rails only against the door bars only. The bars won out massively, due to triangulation. Makes sense. This is why I went for door bars first. I went for frame rails dead last but mainly to protect the underside of my car more than whatever stiffness they added.
Garagestar wing braces also employ triangulation. So they should be effective too. Although once my cage and door bars were fitted I was getting into the realms of finding the mods more subtle, rather than "holy crap!" |
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Post by noobie on Feb 15, 2020 10:35:08 GMT
Garagestar wing braces also employ triangulation. So they should be effective too. Although once my cage and door bars were fitted I was getting into the realms of finding the mods more subtle, rather than "holy crap!" The wing braces triangulate an area that is already covered entirely by the car's main chassis structure (quite beefy structure ), while door bars triangulate quite a large hole. Very big difference. Maybe do a blind test? Remove the front attachment bolts and see whether a driver can notice a difference? |
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Post by Zed. on Feb 15, 2020 12:02:55 GMT
^^thats what they realy are, skids. also, when people fit them they bolt through the floor - and paint / underseal / sound-deadening so allowing the bolts to 'feel' tight untill the aforementioned 'stuff' is squashed & squeezed out of the way I'm not arguing that they can (temporarly?) make a 'worn' or rusted car feel tighter but as actual strengthening it's like shooting yourself in the head & applying a band-aid good marketing ploy though, convince people that they cannot live without something & count the coins rolling in There'll be a manufacturer out there with a torsional twisting resistance tester thingy (technical term ) but I'm not sure that sort of thing is open to us Great Unwashed you can download 'Matlab' and various CAD softwares to visualise the reactions iirc one of the manufacturers of said 'frame-rail' doodah's actually has a very impressive & colourfull visualisation showing 'something' but I didnt see follow-up data explaining what meant what so....... door bars triangulate quite a large hole. Maybe do a blind test? Remove the front attachment bolts and see whether a driver can notice a difference? blind test BUT there'd be noise as everything moved AND possible damage to paintwork / carpet in the localised area (due to movement? also, who would be liable in the case of accident if said test subject arrived at a corner Expecting to traverse at similar speeds as previously BUT found a 'floppy' chassis & the element of suprise ie. being the first to arrive at the scene of the accident (or fastest to the scene of the accident?) Sorta. anyway, its buyer beware! your money & your choice as to where it's left  also, I've read that fitting a 'rollcage' (thing behind passanger compartment) stiffens the car, are they realy that 'soggy'? Rich. |
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) but I'm not sure that sort of thing is open to us Great Unwashed 
haha
le sigh