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Post by V6 on Jul 29, 2016 10:10:55 GMT
At the back of my list of things to do is instal a compact, lightweight Hi-Fi in my 5. Not that this sort of car lends itself amazingly well to this sort of thing. However some subtle background tunes whilst cruising with the top down will be cool none the less. I won't be aiming for "the best" with a mountain of kit, although it will be of a high quality.
Years ago I was really into car audio. Mainly in the mid 1990s onwards for about five years. I used to run Dynaudio drivers powered by Phoenix Gold and Rockford Fosgate amplifiers, back when they were hand made in the USA, built to last forever, plus sounded amazing. Obviously the world has now changed, as all those company brands were sold off. Now those badges are applied to Chinese made kit. It is a shame, but this has happened to some many brands, especially in home Hi-Fi. So I will always look back on the golden era of Hi-Fi (both in the home and in the car) with affection. Brands like SoundStream, PPI, McIntosh, Genesis, Zapco, plus so many more, were all at the cutting edge of quality. I still covet them today - if they are old school originals.
Of course some things are better now. We can store all our music on a phone! No more fumbling around for scratched CDs! So this is exactly what I will be doing in my 5: New Tech meets Old School.
The New:
I'll be using my iPhone 6 to store all my music files in Lossless format (maximum resolution). This will be plugged into an HRT separate DAC (Digital to Analogue Convertor). This small gadget does two things. Firstly it keeps my phone fully charged. Secondly it extracts the pure digital music signal and sends it directly to the HRT external DAC. This offers a massive improvement in quality, compared to using the cheap chip DAC inside the phone. The HRT then sends a high quality music signal to the rest of the system.
The Old:
This is where my vintage obsession comes into play and things get fun. I managed to find a brand new in the box old school Zapco in dash Pre-Amplifier. This was built to the highest quality standards. This takes the output from the DAC and allows you to adjust various things. It has no screen, just dials, so there is no distraction when driving. I then have full control over the system volume, plus a simple equaliser. The output for this is fully balanced at a very high voltage, which means it eliminates noise. So the signal gets sent down the car via a special multi pin cable instead of the standard RCA interconnects. The signal finally arrives at a matching Zapco receiver, when the voltage is dropped again, ready to be sent to the amp.
Now the real porn, for me anyway. I managed to find a new in the box old school Rockford Fosgate 60ix amplifier. The exact amp I used to run back in the day (when MX5 mk1s were still new). Finding this amp was a real geek overload moment. Seeing a factory fresh example was just incredible: gleaming black cast alloy heat sink without all the usual damage. Just lovely. Plus it was the finest sounding "ix" version of the time. These babies were really made to last. Some people have been running them every day since the early 90s without issues. The same cannot always be said about some of their rivals back then.
I'll either be running Morel or Dynaudio drivers, the same as I did all those years ago. They are still made new today and are pretty much the same as the old school versions. I'll most likely use a simple setup of tweeters and 6.5" mid bass drivers in sound deadened doors. No sub, as a 5 is not the right sort of car for that. I will keep it simple, compact and lightweight. In a well sealed door these speakers should have more than enough extension and impact for normal listening duties.
So there you have it. I'm a bit of an Old School audio geek. If anyone else is into ICE as well please say Hi and post up your projects or plans. Hijack away!...
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Post by Rickster on Jul 29, 2016 11:40:53 GMT
I read your post and am embarrassed to say I bought a £25 unit off fleabay to fill a hole, never turn it on and use the Usb to charge my phone. This from a man who once worked as a sound engineer!!!
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Post by joeytalent on Jul 29, 2016 11:57:00 GMT
I'm running a £12 marine amplifier from eBay hooked up to a Nexus 7 and some speakers that sound prarrie canoe (and you can't hear over the exhaust anyway). I don't think I qualify for this conversation, but I'll follow it with interest.
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Post by V6 on Jul 29, 2016 12:00:41 GMT
Hey, that's cool. At least you are saving weight  After my 90s obsession, I went from 2000 to 2007 listening to bog standard OEM audio. Then I had a short blip of getting back into it for a little while. Then again from 2010 until now, I have not done a thing with car audio. In fact all I've done for the last year is scour Ebay for vintage goodness and stash bits in my loft! My car currently has a Sony CD player installed. When I finally get around to installing my Hi-Fi (maybe a winter project), I'll be giving the CD and speakers away, so if anyone wants them... |
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Post by V6 on Jul 29, 2016 12:04:56 GMT
Good point regarding exhaust noise. I have a full Racing Beat system coming soon. So that may hamper things somewhat  Oh well, at least it'll be some mild entertainment if I get stuck in traffic. If anyone does wish to take things further than me, JL Audio make some tiny subs now. Their 6" 6W3 will work in 0.15 cuft sealed. That is akin to magic! Back in the day sub enclosures were 2-3 cuft. I remember well, when the JL W6 came out and we marvelled at their tiny 1 cuft enclosures. How things move on! Modern subs are definitely better for space and weight. |
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Post by Vindi (Russell) on Aug 10, 2016 21:17:53 GMT
Really interested in this ... I know very little about in car audio stuff, although I do have a Rockford Fosgate head unit sat in the garage from a few years back!
Will follow this closely as I had thought for a while there had to be a way to play tunes without the weight and complexity of the usual head unit, amp and speakers
Russell
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Post by myothercarsa2cv on Aug 11, 2016 2:15:44 GMT
Thought about getting a baby sub (a friend sells ICE kit) but they are expensive. I'm also going mids and tweeters in the doors, and deleting the head unit with an amp / iPhone combo. My friend found me an amp that is dinky but punchy (2x125wrms) so will be giving that a go with his speakers and crossovers. Hopefully I'll get round to the install in the next couple of weeks; the biggest challenge will be the wiring behind the dash as a previous owner unleashed carnage upon it  Won't be as nice sound as your setup Kinki but it's a 5, it won't be on most of the time 😜 |
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Post by josho on Aug 11, 2016 8:13:47 GMT
Sounds like itll be really good, in my first car (a Peugeot 106) I managed to get hold of some old JL audio stuff, a 300/4 amp and a w3v2 sub. Loved the sound from those two coupled with some RF speakers upfront powered off the amp.
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Post by myothercarsa2cv on Aug 11, 2016 8:22:49 GMT
P.s. Can we get some high end audio porn? |
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Post by V6 on Aug 11, 2016 9:02:58 GMT
I won't be starting the audio until the other major parts on the car are done. Lets face it, there are more important things to be done on a drivers car! Audio is the bottom of my list, as much as I love it. I still have a hood and some other expensive bits to pay out for.
At the moment I only have a collection of NOS bits in boxes. I also need to decide upon the door speakers. My high end favourites would be Dynaudio or Morel. However in a 5 they might be a bit wasted for most of the time when I'm actually driving. Plus they are rather spendy. So I may reign myself in and be more sensible. Various other speakers are also very good but cost way less, such as Hertz. In the environment of a noisy 5 they will probably sound the same for 99% of the time. You really don't need to go too far in a car like this. Car audio is not really about putting expensive parts in a car quickly and poorly. The instal and interior are at least half the final sound. It is easy to make expensive kit sound pants, or reasonable priced kit to sound great. It is all down to putting in the time and effort. So we'll see how much money I have spare and how sensible I am feeling.
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Post by V6 on Aug 11, 2016 9:29:29 GMT
I will post some proper instal photos at some point, when I get a moment to dig it all out again. But for now here are some older snaps I took of my actual items (unless otherwise stated) when I first got some of the items... PROPOSED SYSTEM: iPhone 6 with "Lossless" music files > HRT DAC *IMPORTANT NOTE: The 12v portable version!* >  1 by s_worksair, on Flickr (stock photo) Zapco balanced pre-amp >  2 by s_worksair, on Flickr Zapco balanced receiver >  3 by s_worksair, on Flickr Rockford Fosgate 60ix amplifier >  4 by s_worksair, on Flickr Zapco balanced gold cables & Streetwires RCA final connection to amp >  a1 by s_worksair, on Flickr Stinger power and ground cables throughout >  a3 by s_worksair, on Flickr Van Damme speaker cables throughout >  a2 by s_worksair, on Flickr Rockford Fosgate fuse and distribution - testing layout ideas >  a4 by s_worksair, on Flickr SPARES I MAY NEVER USE: Soundstream Tri-Mode crossover (enables the use of a sub with only a single two channel amp - real old school!) >  x1 by s_worksair, on Flickr JL Audio 6W3 - micro sized subwoofer >  x2 by s_worksair, on Flickr (stock shot) Rockford Fosgate amplifier "link" (to cosmetically connect sub amp to stereo amp) >  x3 by s_worksair, on Flickr |
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Post by BikeTuna on Aug 11, 2016 9:50:24 GMT
I'm possibly not as keen as you on it all, but that's more budget related than anything else... Back in the day my car was running 2 12" infinity subs and infinity components in the doors, 2 alpine amps and a sony headunit, with a homemade boot build, full dynomat and rewire. Everyone else was starting to run TVs but I sidestepped it and spent what I had in audio only. It wasn't competition spec but it wasn't basic, its what I could make and afford and I was really pleased with it! In the 5 at the mo it's all pioneer. The head is a pioneer double din, the door speakers are pioneer 5" and I have a slimline pioneer sub behind the seats. It's all the job of the previous owner and it's ok, but it's not what I'd have done. The sub will be staying, it punches just about ok, could do with being more powerful for roof down but considering its weight and size im happy. The door speakers and the head are rubbish and I'll be changing them out as money allows. Once the exterior is sorted the plan is to uprate the door speakers to larger, add some components to the tops and change the head to an android one (for features rather than clarity). I wont mat the doors to start and see how it sounds, but don't want to add too much weight to the car. I'll definitely look forward to see what you do to yours, and then cheekily adapt your ideas at a lower cost!  |
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Post by V6 on Aug 11, 2016 10:02:33 GMT
You are the same as myself: quality over quantity. Even when I was going mad in home hi-fi I never went for surround sound. I spent the same (daft) amount of money of a simple stereo system.
I also started out with Infinity speakers. Back in the 1990s they were well made yet affordable kit. The real old school Beta series was the best. Then came Kappa (black cones) which is what I had. They did go down hill later one (green cones). Then another final highlight was the Infinity Perfect range of component speakers and subs. I think that was the last time they were near the top of their game.
This system will by no means be anything really special. A lot of it for me is using vintage correct kit where possible just for nostalgia really. I also had this laying around before I even decided to buy a 5. If I wanted to notch audio I would never have bought a convertible after all. It is just about having a bit of fun and using what I have to hand. At 70mph with the top down all systems will sound a bit poor! Unless you fill the entire boot up with subs and amps. But that is not what these cars are about. So my system will be as small, simple and light as possible, whilst sounding fine. Not the best, just decent.
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Post by Meerkat on Aug 11, 2016 13:18:43 GMT
I will be following your progress with interest. I am very much into HiFi sound myself (I have a nice separate system at home and am a bit of a geek when it comes to anything sound-related).
Anyway, my question is: what are your plans for sound deadening in the doors? I have been pretty disappointed with the dynamics of the doors so far - the main problem seems to be sound leakage out of the top of the door panels, where they meet the glass, which tends to cancel out a lot of the bass frequencies. The only way to solve this really would be to seal off a cavity behind the speaker, which would be tricky and still wouldn't guarantee good bass response.
Personally I am now thinking of abandoning the doors altogether and mounting some woofers and separate tweeters in the parcel shelf. I've heard good reports about the sound quality and it would be much easier to prevent sound leakage from the rear of the woofers with the speakers in this position.
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Post by V6 on Aug 11, 2016 13:39:22 GMT
There are always lots of different ways to tackle the problem. You are right in that unless you can mostly seal the door you will suffer a lack of low end impact and extension. Obviously this is because the rear wave cancels out the front wave. Which is why a lower frequency driver in mid air makes no sound at all. So sealing the driver off is critical. The options I see are:
1. Damp the rear metal surface, then make a new door skin from plywood. Pay close attention to where air might escape. As you say there is a limit, as the window hole will allow some air to vent. This will be FAR better than standard, but perhaps still not ideal. Only testing will tell.
2. Depending on the driver specs you may have room for a sealed or even ported enclosure. This enclosure could be mounted in a number of places:
a. Mounted on top of the door panel you have just made.
b. Mounted inside the door itself (may require a lot of cutting and a driver which requires a smaller enclosure).
c. Mounted half inside the door and half protruding (you can use larger drivers or ported enclosures).
d. My favorite - mount the mid bass in sealed enclosures on the floor. As the seats will not move this is not an issue.
You will note...
It will not matter if the low frequency drivers are at 90 degrees to the normal upright position very much. As lower frequencies are not as directional to our ears / brains. Which means floor mounted mid bass can work very well. The upside is no weather damage and a perfectly sealed driver.
Keeping the Path Length Differences (PLDs) as close as possible is key. Generally the further away the driver cones the better, so the left cone is not too much further away from your ears than the right driver. This is even more critical for the higher frequency drivers. So I would not automatically put tweeters in pillars like most people, which may be far too close. Try placing them far away as possible deep in the kick wells, aimed inwards and upwards to achieve the stereo image. This minimises PLDs. You may have to treat the underside of your hard plastic reflective dash to acoustically blend them in. Any hard surfaces and edges will diffuse the sound and make it more "fuzzy" due to wave reflections and delays. So experiment with different placements.
Also if possible, try and place the high frequency drivers as close to the mid/low frequency drivers as this avoids phase issues. It is not always possible. So you can try the old school method of hooking up drivers in reverse polarity (which may improve their sound due to avoiding phase issues).
A lot of new school bods may laugh at all this faffing about. Many people just chuck the drivers in wherever they will fit. Then "tune" the system afterwards. This works to a degree. Although many people hate that over processed sound. Personally I prefer to get the drivers in decent locations and have zero processing like time alignment. Each to their own though.
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Oh well, at least it'll be some mild entertainment if I get stuck in traffic.
