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Post by zoona on Apr 5, 2022 16:02:19 GMT
Water
Water temp gauge not working, but discovered the wire is disconnected. Fixing that now
I have a coolant reroute, and getting to the thermostat is an absolute bastard. Like properly painful. But needs to be done
The rad is warming up... Will check in more detail.
It was fine 6 months ago when I started it up, but I dont remember checking the oil temp specifically. But I think i would have done...
Oil
Yeah. I was glad not to see shimmery things, but the lumps made me prarrie canoe myself a tiny bit...
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Post by Zed. on Apr 5, 2022 16:03:34 GMT
i found some funny things in my oil... S hit happens, new engines always have 'bits' and dirt in them so don't worry too much (you have an oilfilter?) What are the collective thoughs? Am i fu cked black is burnt deposits that have come free, nothing really to worry about. IMO. it's the shiney shiney glitter that is the mark of death. sorta this also  Rich. |
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Post by zoona on Apr 5, 2022 16:03:41 GMT
really like that   |
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Post by niklas on Apr 5, 2022 16:19:08 GMT
Oh man! That is gremlin poop that is. Probably why the temp gauges are acting up.
Did you feed it after midnight?
Oh, don't worry. Hope that you get to the bottom of the oil temp thing soon.
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Post by zoona on Apr 5, 2022 17:32:09 GMT
If it is the thermostat, can I run it without one until I find a replacement?
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Post by atlex on Apr 5, 2022 18:23:02 GMT
If it is the thermostat, can I run it without one until I find a replacement? Yes, it'll just take a longgg time to warm up. |
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Post by zoona on Apr 5, 2022 19:06:38 GMT
so, let me run through the ridiculous temp sensor setup i think they used, and please correct me if wrong.
one sensor on the front thrmostat housing (i no longer have a thermostat here as i have done a reroute). This drives the fan?
One two connection sensor on the back, which is read by ecu?
One single connection sender on the back, which is for the dash gauge?
Is that correct?
What I have done:
Wired up a new oil temp sensor to the drain plug
plugged in the single connection temp sensor at the back of the engine
connected lappy to the ecu
WHat I can see
Oil pressure still starts high and drops as oil gets hot - i think this is correct
Oil temp still climbs. i let it get to 115deg C before stopping
Water temp on dash not reading
Water temp on lappy climbs and got to 70 deg c when i switched it off ( ican;t remember which side of the thermostat the sender is)
I have a temp gun thingy and pointed that at a few things...
The rad is warm at the top to the touch. Temp gun reads ~30c
The thermostat housing on the front (without a termostat) is hot to the touch - temp gun reads 40ish. I have one of my turbo lines connected to this though - so i think that could be warming this up...
Oil sump is warm to the touch - temp gun reads 55c ont he drain plug
What else happened
The dashboard fuse blew twice, after a few minutes of running.
What i did next
unplugged the single connector temp sensor, ran it again. fuse didn't blow.
Conclusions?...
Seeing oil temp go up on gauge and in the sump seems right to me. so that's good... I woudl expect it to be a bit lowers in the sump, and i am reading it through the sump wall. so those rough numbers look sensible
Seeing a 'normal temp rise' in ecu water temp sensor, but rad not getting very hot. Does that sound normal, or like the termostat isn't opening? seems like the latter to me?
I think the only option now is to get the thermostat out and take a look at it.
Any other suggestiosn that don;t mean f'ing about at the back of the engine and scraping all the skin of my knuckles?
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Post by Zed. on Apr 5, 2022 20:48:35 GMT
so, let me run through the ridiculous temp sensor setup i think they used, and please correct me if wrong. one sensor on the front thrmostat housing (i no longer have a thermostat here as i have done a reroute). This drives the fan? One two connection sensor on the back, which is read by ecu? One single connection sender on the back, which is for the dash gauge? about there. to test the dashboard temp gauge (standard coolant temperature and oil pressure & depending on if it's analogue - oil temperature gauge?) unplug the single-wire connector and 'earth' it with the ignition on - if all is good then the gauge will rise to the 'full' position Any other suggestiosn that don;t mean f'ing about at the back of the engine and scraping all the skin of my knuckles? pussy  well there is...... also, early single-wire lamda (02) sensor wiring is @ rear of engine but has a round connector as opposed to the temp-sender's 'spade' terminal. Rich. |
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Post by atlex on Apr 5, 2022 20:57:45 GMT
the oil temp definitely seems too high shouldn't get much over 90 centigrade idling unless something is terribly wrong or you just finished a heroic high boost long run. coolant temp seems too low for the high oil temps. 45 degree difference ? !!! hard to believe. even without the thermostat running the coolant has a circulation path. water temp on dash should read, and I think it reads from the rear coolant sensor. the front one, I think, drives the fan as a backup, but your car isn't really bogstd. anymore is it. did your fan come on ? (curious) does your oil return line REALLY run back to the thermostat housing ? it should normally run straight to the sump :-) what does your oil pressure gauge say ? if you have a not-fake-oil-pressure-gauge that, is imo, the main way to gauge oil temperature in the absent of trustworthy temperature numbers. expect a hot engine to show lower pressure - if you imagine 0\ 2 4 /6 (see http://instagr.am/p/CXMBSu7AVGP ) cold startup it should be pegged on between 4 and 6 and with revs go higher a bit. after 5 minutes idling it should be at 4, and another 5 minutes at 2 then gradually drop as the engine becomes fully heated.. after a hot run up a hill expect it to sit around half way between \ and 2 at idle and obviously go up to 4 with revs. now get this, with an overheating engine you'll see the oil pressure drop even more because it thins out progressively as it overheats. so idling you'd expect it to be closer to the 0 than the 2. think of how hot cooking oil runs like water. are you sure your oil temp reading isn't in Fahrenheit ? eh.....  btw that video above is after about 7 minutes of high idling on my itb car when I was running in the new cams for the first time. coolant temp pegged in the middle. oil is still not up to temperature and so at 2K rpm it's close to the middle of the gauge. |
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Post by zoona on Apr 5, 2022 21:59:38 GMT
to test the dashboard temp gauge (standard coolant temperature and oil pressure & depending on if it's analogue - oil temperature gauge?) unplug the single-wire connector and 'earth' it with the ignition on - if all is good then the gauge will rise to the 'full' position Will try that. Water temp is the std one in the dash. Oil pressure is the proper one. Oil temp is analogue stack gauge, not halfords special. also, early single-wire lamda (02) sensor wiring is @ rear of engine but has a round connector as opposed to the temp-sender's 'spade' terminal. Yep, that will is still flapping about - didn't get them confused. the oil temp definitely seems too high shouldn't get much over 90 centigrade idling unless something is terribly wrong or you just finished a heroic high boost long run. coolant temp seems too low for the high oil temps. 45 degree difference ? !!! hard to believe. even without the thermostat running the coolant has a circulation path. I would agree from my experience as well. Like i said, it woudl only get that hot after a beating on track. water temp on dash should read, and I think it reads from the rear coolant sensor. the front one, I think, drives the fan as a backup, but your car isn't really bogstd. anymore is it. did your fan come on ? (curious) That tallies with what i thought. It is modded, but has all three sensors in roughly the same place. No, but then I don't think the water at the front sensor got hot enough. I could touch the housing. i will try grounding that as well (I think that shoudl turn teh fan on shouldn't it? does your oil return line REALLY run back to the thermostat housing ? it should normally run straight to the sump :-) No.. the water lines. I meant it could be the turbo heating up the water in that front housing. what does your oil pressure gauge say ? now get this, with an overheating engine you'll see the oil pressure drop even more because it thins out progressively as it overheats. so idling you'd expect it to be closer to the 0 than the 2. think of how hot cooking oil runs like water. On initial cold start it goes all the way to the top. Then coems down as it gets hotter, and gets to about 2 by the time the temp gets to 115. It does what i woudl expect overall, but i don't trust the absolute numbers as it has been apart and needle moved. are you sure your oil temp reading isn't in Fahrenheit ? eh..... Yes... the new one is F, but i can't make that work. Jobs: Check the water temp gauge by grounding Check fan comes on when grounding that one Pull the bloody reroute off to look at the thermostat housing. not looking forward to that. it's an absolute bastard to put back on with the thermostat not falling out and gettign trapped so it doesn;t seat properly. I am still not happy that the wiring isn;t borked. That fuse blowing is really weird. |
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Post by zoona on Apr 5, 2022 22:13:54 GMT
Jobs: Check the water temp gauge by grounding Done, and grounding it made the gauge move
Check fan comes on when grounding that one
Done, and fan started.
Pull the bloody reroute off to look at the thermostat housing. not looking forward to that. it's an absolute bastard to put back on with the thermostat not falling out and gettign trapped so it doesn;t seat properly.
Just got to do the last one now. Unless somebody has a last minute answer that will save me... |
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Post by dadbif on Apr 6, 2022 6:37:13 GMT
Are your temp sensors properly calibrated to your ecu? ISTR having to do so when I first set up my MS2, different resistance settings will give different readings.
If you’re using a standalone gauge and sensor, ignore the above…
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Post by zoona on Apr 6, 2022 10:37:47 GMT
Are your temp sensors properly calibrated to your ecu? ISTR having to do so when I first set up my MS2, different resistance settings will give different readings. If you’re using a standalone gauge and sensor, ignore the above… Oil temp sensor is stack aftermarket. It was used on this ECU, with this time previously. So assume it is ok .. The rest are all STD dash gauges and sensors. |
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Post by zoona on Apr 6, 2022 15:14:54 GMT
lots of swearing later, and i have the thermostat out.
It works. Starts to open at 88 and was fully open by 93ish.
So, on the theory that water not flowing causes high oil temps... Could the water pump be broken? wouldn't it make an interesting noise if that were the case?
Could the oil pump br broken? But that would be pretty catestrophic woudln't it? Never had one go... so i don't know.
Or is the sender gauge just Canoeed, and the oil is fine?
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Post by atlex on Apr 6, 2022 15:18:53 GMT
if your oil pump was broken you'd have shiney in your old oil and things would go wrong pretty quick. 88 opening is fine. some like the lower temp thermostats. (76?) but in general it benefits to not open until properly warmed up, thus getting the oil up to temp as fast as possible. you can check if your water pump is working by just spinning it while the thermostat is out  I don't trust your oil temp sensor calibration, frankly. I'd pull the sensor out and test it with a known temperature like recently boiled water. |
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le sigh