|
|
Post by baconsarnie on Jul 4, 2018 13:08:13 GMT
I'm still sceptical too! The Extremes use R888's and AD08R's etc for the base carcass (unlike maxsport who use any old tyre and hence they're not a stiff tyre and do vary) but you could still obviously get 1 random in a set however Extreme also now sell NK versions which are new carcasses, these are the ones that have been setting good times up here. You can also send away your own tyres to be remoulded which I may do once I've killed my AD08R's. I'm also hoping to get some scrubbed R888R's for trackdays and maybe compare them on some sprints/hills. Money no object would be great to get all the tyres together and have a proper test! haha, yes, exactly... we clearly aren't taking this seriously enough  |
|
|
|
Post by BikeTuna on Jul 5, 2018 16:01:41 GMT
... but both the T1R and Rainsports have horrid wobbly tread blocks that ruin the feel and communication creating horrible 'lag' in the steering. Ive not long ago put T1Rs on mine and can confirm they are unstable. On regular driving the car is fine, they are reasonably quiet and turn in ok, but add a bit of 'spirited' throttle and they squirm all over the place. it's really unsettling! |
|
|
|
Post by nickd on Jul 9, 2018 14:58:26 GMT
I'm still sceptical too! The Extremes use R888's and AD08R's etc for the base carcass (unlike maxsport who use any old tyre and hence they're not a stiff tyre and do vary) but you could still obviously get 1 random in a set however Extreme also now sell NK versions which are new carcasses, these are the ones that have been setting good times up here. You can also send away your own tyres to be remoulded which I may do once I've killed my AD08R's. I'm also hoping to get some scrubbed R888R's for trackdays and maybe compare them on some sprints/hills. Money no object would be great to get all the tyres together and have a proper test! If Extreme are using new carcass's does that not make them a new tyre, thus subject to tyre labelling and unless approved, not eligible as a 1B tyre. The reason Extreme qualify for sprints and hill climbs is because they are remoulds and thus label exempt. If you have competitors setting records on "new tyres" you probably should be talking to the eligibility scrutineer. |
|
|
|
Post by mrwallace on Jul 10, 2018 11:48:35 GMT
I'm still sceptical too! The Extremes use R888's and AD08R's etc for the base carcass (unlike maxsport who use any old tyre and hence they're not a stiff tyre and do vary) but you could still obviously get 1 random in a set however Extreme also now sell NK versions which are new carcasses, these are the ones that have been setting good times up here. You can also send away your own tyres to be remoulded which I may do once I've killed my AD08R's. I'm also hoping to get some scrubbed R888R's for trackdays and maybe compare them on some sprints/hills. Money no object would be great to get all the tyres together and have a proper test! If Extreme are using new carcass's does that not make them a new tyre, thus subject to tyre labelling and unless approved, not eligible as a 1B tyre. The reason Extreme qualify for sprints and hill climbs is because they are remoulds and thus label exempt. If you have competitors setting records on "new tyres" you probably should be talking to the eligibility scrutineer.
Nick, as per reply in other topic the MSA clarified that the VR2 NK are still list 1B, despite the new carcass they're still considered a remould;
www.msauk.org/assets/msanews970418.pdf
|
|
|
|
Post by baconsarnie on Jul 10, 2018 12:26:48 GMT
smells a bit cheaty ;P
kinda creates a 'black market' for small tyre manufacturers that completely undermines the whole 1B/1C ruling/prarrie canoe show!
|
|
|
|
Post by nickd on Jul 10, 2018 16:00:03 GMT
If Extreme are using new carcass's does that not make them a new tyre, thus subject to tyre labelling and unless approved, not eligible as a 1B tyre. The reason Extreme qualify for sprints and hill climbs is because they are remoulds and thus label exempt. If you have competitors setting records on "new tyres" you probably should be talking to the eligibility scrutineer.
Nick, as per reply in other topic the MSA clarified that the VR2 NK are still list 1B, despite the new carcass they're still considered a remould;
www.msauk.org/assets/msanews970418.pdf
I suspect what they are doing is buying cassings from a third party, probably a Chinese factory to which they are then adding a tread layer. It does seem somewhat against the spirit of the rules in so far that they are creating tyres using new components but as remoulds. Logic would say that making a carcass and then adding tread as a second operation must cost more than making the tyre in one and therefore profit vs. quality and quality control must come into it. Having had a Colway tyre delimitate on me years ago with quite expensive and potentially life threatening results the idea of a tread glues on top of an already made carcass is not something I would rush to use. While possibly hill climbs and short sprints will put far less thermal stress into the tyre than circuit use, as you see from truck tread on the motorway I wouldn't want to be doing 10 laps of Rockinham on one. |
|
|
|
Post by mrwallace on Jul 11, 2018 12:02:36 GMT
It sounds like that is how they're manufactured.
I was never keen on remoulds and had never even seen them being used until I found about the maxsports being remoulds - these are ran by lots of people in the hillclimbs and sprints and more crucially rallying where they are subjected to a lot of abuse. I've not heard of any failures - like you do see with truck tyres!
Supposedly the Extreme tyres are made in the same German factory as the Maxsports and was in fact started by an ex-employee so I would hope they're still up to the same quality but I agree that's probably still not the same quality as a tyre made from scratch.
|
|
|
|
Post by nickd on Jul 11, 2018 17:02:14 GMT
Gravel rally tyres have a lifespan of around 30KM, maybe 60 on 4WD and punctures are just part of the hazard of rallying. A tyre issue is far less of a noticeable thing in this situation.
What the Extreme situation allows of for is compounds to be used that would not meet current EU road rolling resistance regulations.
|
|
|
|
Post by nookey on May 16, 2019 16:12:50 GMT
I thought I'd share my thoughts after running both AR1's and the Extreme VR2's R5 (New Carcuss) at Gurston in April. My AR1's were new for the June event last year and only did the Gurston Championship rounds so not very worn at all. When I fitted the AR1's last year I took a good chunk off my best time with them fitted last year and made a noticeable differnce to the mix of 888 SG & 888r I was using at the time - was very happy with them.
As Dean Cubitt was getting rid of a set of his old VR2's earlier this year I though it would be a good opportunity to try them back to back with the AR1's, both a similar age. Dean's tyres had clearly had a much harder life than my AR1's and didin't look in the best condition but worth a try.
Conditions were ideal, dry, sunny and warm on both days.
Saturday with the AR1's - A great day, beat the class record and my PB by 0.3s on my first timed run @ 39.58.. But that was more due to the head skim and increased compression giving me a little more power over last year. I was very happy with the tyres and running at 24psi, I had my best starts on Saturday but this could have due to my car being double driven and a very quick change over before my runs.
Sunday, I thought I'd give the Extreme's a go in the practice runs, as Saturday was so good I didn't want to change much, but kept them on for the full day.
The period between the double drive runs was much longer on Sunday so the tyres would've been colder than on Saturday. I didn't break any records and was 0.09s off Saturday's PB so clearly no massive improvement from swapping the tyres.
However, I do think I could have been quicker on the Extreme's, my observations are;
- My starts weren't as good as the Saturday (but tyre temps could have impacted that).
- Braking into Carousel, I felt that there was much less chance of locking up compared to the AR1's and probably didn't push as much as I could've done.
- Coming out of the top of Carousel and up to ashes I was hitting the rev limiter sooner, before backing off into Ashes. I'd draw from that I had more grip through the corner to get a better drive out.
- Ashes is where I felt the biggest difference, I wasn't getting oversteer coming out of that corner despite been alot more agressive with the throttle, much more than I did on the AR1's which would have seen me drifting out of the corner.
The margin across both days was very close and I changed up too early on my best run heading up the hill which probably lost me a little time. (And the win as I missed it by 0.03s!!)
The sidewalls feel alot stiffer on the Extreme's than on the AR1's which I liked. I'm no expert driver and mainly compete at Gurston so someone else may feel differently about these.
As a result I've purchased a new set of the Extreme's to use in June, fingers crossed it's not a wasted expense.
|
|
|
|
Post by howardb66 on May 16, 2019 16:24:39 GMT
Hmmm, interesting. I’m still not convinced by Extremes. Dean did really well on list 1As a this year’s Gurston practice day & wasn’t much quicker on the Extremes. He had a spin on Karusel & crunched the rear 1/4 of his car in April. In the championship I’m in, we have a penalty of 2.25% for 1Bs & looking at the times, they’re quicker but not that much.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrwallace on May 21, 2019 12:03:50 GMT
Interesting to read your experience with the Extreme's nookey. I've now used them for a couple of sprints and one hill climb and do rate them. At Kames which is a very abrasive track the Extreme's feel great from the start, the stiff sidewall gives you good confidence in them both cornering and under braking, they're noticeably sharper on the brakes than R888R's and turn in very nicely, they're well balanced up to and over the limit and break away progressively. I've not properly tried them against the R888R's as it was wet when running them but I've taken 2 seconds off my previous best over a 90 sec sprint compared with AD08R's. As you mention they don't actually grip well off the line though, maybe due to the stiff sidewall and the lifespan of them is very much in question, at Kames they suffer badly with the compount moving and balling up....  20190407_155448 by David Wallace, on Flickr Pretty much all class A9 records have been set on them up here though and a lot of the road cars have switched to them. |
|
|
|
Post by wannabe on May 21, 2019 13:26:24 GMT
Interesting to read your experience with the Extreme's nookey. I've now used them for a couple of sprints and one hill climb and do rate them. At Kames which is a very abrasive track the Extreme's feel great from the start, the stiff sidewall gives you good confidence in them both cornering and under braking, they're noticeably sharper on the brakes than R888R's and turn in very nicely, they're well balanced up to and over the limit and break away progressively. I've not properly tried them against the R888R's as it was wet when running them but I've taken 2 seconds off my previous best over a 90 sec sprint compared with AD08R's. As you mention they don't actually grip well off the line though, maybe due to the stiff sidewall and the lifespan of them is very much in question, at Kames they suffer badly with the compount moving and balling up.... 20190407_155448 by David Wallace, on Flickr Pretty much all class A9 records have been set on them up here though and a lot of the road cars have switched to them. Are they (were they  ) road legal? They look like they'd be very, er, 'interesting' in the wet... |
|
|
|
Post by niklas on May 21, 2019 20:40:01 GMT
245-40-15 nankang ar-1.
The only tire I tried so far that can handle full throttle in second gear without turning into smoke.
Also won the last auto-x.
Feels somewhat like a 888, we'll see if they are faster when I get to some track days.
|
|
|
|
Post by howardb66 on May 22, 2019 9:34:03 GMT
245-40-15 nankang ar-1. The only tire I tried so far that can handle full throttle in second gear without turning into smoke. Also won the last auto-x. Feels somewhat like a 888, we'll see if they are faster when I get to some track days. Watch the AR1, a friend of mine uses them for sprints & they good when warm but take a few corners to generate grip. |
|
|
|
Post by mrwallace on May 22, 2019 11:46:23 GMT
Are they (were they ) road legal? They look like they'd be very, er, 'interesting' in the wet...
Yes completely legal when they still have "tread" on them, they actually work well in the wet on track because they're so soft but wouldn't cope with standing water.
The pick up however gives a good vibration on the road!
|
|
) road legal?
le sigh