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Post by Rickster on Jan 20, 2017 12:20:28 GMT
Just read about this in the MSA newsletter read the second document here and you will see why we need to be concerned www.gov.uk/government/consultations/motor-insurance-consideration-of-the-vnuk-judgmentAll because a guy got knocked of a ladder by a tractor in a Slovenian Farmyard. So basically every vehicle would need third party liable insurance, whether on the road or not From the MSA newletter:- The Vnuk judgement affects all vehicles which are not currently required to have third party insurance. This includes everything from electric bicycles, golf buggies, quad bikes and ride-on lawn mowers, through to forklift trucks, agricultural machines and construction plant. Even static vehicles in museums and SORN’d vehicles would be affected. All motorsport vehicles from karts, single seaters, saloons, rally, rallycross and cross country vehicles, trials cars, production cars in autotests, and even land speed record vehicles and Formula 1 cars would be required to have compulsory third party insurance. Many competition vehicles are already road registered, taxed, MOT’d and insured, but this insurance is usually limited to their activities on public roads, and not during competitive sections. A similar situation applies to vehicles on trackdays. No insurance policy is available to cover such a compulsory obligation. |
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Post by atlex on Jan 20, 2017 13:08:10 GMT
farmyard = private race track ? LOL
yet more reason to flee the EU. sorry to say.
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Post by atlex on Jan 20, 2017 13:08:54 GMT
the way the law wants to cover every possible behaviour is.. close to a fairly well-described form of madness.
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Post by wannabe on Jan 20, 2017 13:33:36 GMT
OMGWTFLOL - SRSLY?
This is ridiculous - surely people just sue a person who has injured them through a civil claims process, which they can do now? Requiring every single object with wheels and an engine to become registered and insured is just some sort of insanity, as who in their right mind would buy a child a ride-on toy car (with a 2mph top speed) for use in the garden if it's going to cost £££ a year to insure?
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Post by Meerkat on Jan 20, 2017 17:22:57 GMT
I must say this does seem pretty ludicrous on the surface of it, particularly with regard to attaching the insurance to the vehicle itself - so you'd need a separate policy for every single item you owned which falls under the umbrella of this legislation? How would it be enforced? The police have enough trouble just keeping uninsured cars off our roads let alone motorized scooters, segways, lawn mowers etc, many of which would never be used in a public place.
I've been trying to look at it from the point of view of a claimant. How would I feel if some twat on a segway knocked me over and broke my neck? I would want compensation, for sure. What if the twat on a segway was some estate yob with 20p to his name. I would be left with my life permanently ruined and if I tried to sue him he would just go "whatevs cuz, got no money innit".
So perhaps (just playing devil's advocate) there is a case for SOME kind of 3rd party insurance for vehicles in public or populated places. However, extending that to motorsport makes no sense, because the people on and around a track are there of their own free will and also fully understand that there is an inherent danger in being there. Make them sign a disclaimer, sure, but if something happens to you personally on a track and you are not adequately prepared/insured, then that is on your own head, not everyone else's.
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Post by wannabe on Jan 23, 2017 17:28:54 GMT
I must say this does seem pretty ludicrous on the surface of it, particularly with regard to attaching the insurance to the vehicle itself - so you'd need a separate policy for every single item you owned which falls under the umbrella of this legislation? How would it be enforced? The police have enough trouble just keeping uninsured cars off our roads let alone motorized scooters, segways, lawn mowers etc, many of which would never be used in a public place. I've been trying to look at it from the point of view of a claimant. How would I feel if some twat on a segway knocked me over and broke my neck? I would want compensation, for sure. What if the twat on a segway was some estate yob with 20p to his name. I would be left with my life permanently ruined and if I tried to sue him he would just go "whatevs cuz, got no money innit".So perhaps (just playing devil's advocate) there is a case for SOME kind of 3rd party insurance for vehicles in public or populated places. However, extending that to motorsport makes no sense, because the people on and around a track are there of their own free will and also fully understand that there is an inherent danger in being there. Make them sign a disclaimer, sure, but if something happens to you personally on a track and you are not adequately prepared/insured, then that is on your own head, not everyone else's.
You are assuming that said 'yoof' would actually have gone to the trouble of buying insurance in the first place, which given the issues you point out in the first paragraph, would not be very likely! lol
Once again, as with all of these things that are effectively taxes, they only ever really affect the law-abiding citizens of this land - those who pay no attention to the law and laugh in its face will just be laughing at us fools all being forced into paying more money out for little benefit back, in a similar manner to those who don't register their car in their name, don't insure them, don't tax them, etc etc.
IIRC(?) the documentation does make mention of some central compensation fund for those who suffer some mishap at the hands of someone who hadn't got insurance, but that's just the same situation as the Motorists Insurance Bureau (?) now, with their central pot of money for those damaged by the uninsured - us law-abiders subsiding those who ignore the law.
Anyway, this is turning into some sort of Daily Mail rant so I'll move along... lol
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Post by Horney on Jan 24, 2017 9:10:13 GMT
If this came to be it would essentially end grass routes motorsport and trackdays in this country. I would cry, a lot.
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Post by Horney on Jan 24, 2017 9:14:18 GMT
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rikk
New Here
Posts: 89 
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Post by rikk on Jan 24, 2017 10:50:03 GMT
Interesting one.
Personally, I think it makes sense that some form of public liability insurance can only be a good thing. But to mandate it be attached to the vehicle is batshat crazy. Got more than one racecar? Welcome to multiple policies even if you are the only driver.
I spent some time photographing trackdays a while back, in order to be allowed onto the trackside part of the fence I was required to have personal liablity insurance. It just made sense to have it if I'm honest and it was not expensive at all.
Now, I don't know the ins and outs of grass roots motorsport, but isn't there any public liability insurance requirement now? Either from the event organisers or the competitors?
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Post by Rickster on Jan 24, 2017 12:01:43 GMT
Interesting one. Personally, I think it makes sense that some form of public liability insurance can only be a good thing. But to mandate it be attached to the vehicle is batshat crazy. Got more than one racecar? Welcome to multiple policies even if you are the only driver. I spent some time photographing trackdays a while back, in order to be allowed onto the trackside part of the fence I was required to have personal liablity insurance. It just made sense to have it if I'm honest and it was not expensive at all. Now, I don't know the ins and outs of grass roots motorsport, but isn't there any public liability insurance requirement now? Either from the event organisers or the competitors? There is always some PUBLIC liability insurance with all events - this covers the event organisers if there is a claim. but there is no personal 3rd party liability for the individual driver/owners of the vehicle. In the Vnuk ruling I think that a farmers liability insurance would cover this in the UK but if the farmers insurance said that the driver was at fault and operating the vehicle incorrectly then they could pass liability to the driver who would have no cover and the claimant would get nothing - hence the ruling. From a motorsport perspective I imagine a scenario could be that whilst driving off the track but in the pit/parking area - you run over someone in your car - which is deemed to be faulty or you are speeding perhaps - the organisers public liability may pay (i dont know) but there could still be a claim against you personally? there is risk attached to everything - the law starts at the point of there are no accidents and there is always a cause and someone/thing is at fault This is what personal injury lawyers thrive on!! the problems come when legislation tries to cover all risk, its not possible - if you think about it - the extrapolation of this is that every adult individual has a 3rd party liability insurance for any claim against them - its ridiculous but that is where we are heading!! Only Lawyers and Insurance companies win Rant over!! |
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Post by Meerkat on Jan 24, 2017 13:24:42 GMT
if you think about it - the extrapolation of this is that every adult individual has a 3rd party liability insurance for any claim against them - its ridiculous but that is where we are heading!! As completely barmy as that is, that would still make more sense than a string of different policies to cover all your motorized devices. |
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Post by myothercarsa2cv on Jan 29, 2017 20:46:06 GMT
Maybe the govt could just include it in our NI payments... lol
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Post by Meerkat on Jan 30, 2017 9:55:48 GMT
Maybe the govt could just include it in our NI payments... lol Lol! National-And-Public-Liability-Insurance |
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le sigh