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Post by Zed. on May 25, 2018 14:58:51 GMT
You do me an injustice gentlemen, I'm all for handling. I don't give a toss for huge sticking out wheels and scraping on the ground. I was looking for a fast road set up only. I can't afford to do track days unfortunately. It was the guys at Blink that mentioned the ride height. I was going to get the Ohlins from them. no offence meant . Sorry  I actually bought my Ohlins THEN the Eunos as the availability of sensably prices dampers swayed my longterm desire for a '5  the car with a 12 month mot was £550 and the Ohlins dampers were £400... both sorta secondhand..... I know this sounds wrong! I've worked on & competed in many rallycars - I've seen / felt the diference that damper tecnology makes (Ohlins, Proflex, Reiger etc. over Bilstein, Gax & Leda) Admittedly budget makes a big diference as some are £1K+ per corner  maybe I've been blinkered but untill I started looking into 5's I'd never heard of MeisterR, although they seem popular. I'm building a more competition directed car (probably sprint & hillclimb), some of my fiddlin so far is around brakes - building a 'bais-adjustable' twin master-cylinder pedlebox to tune the brake force. I'm also looking at lowering the bodyshell on the front suspension crossmember (by altering the position of the crossmember's body-mount points) in an effort to counteract bumpsteer issues when lowering a car on its springs  maybe I think too much..... Rich. |
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Post by quinvy on May 25, 2018 19:32:19 GMT
The limiting factor with the Mk1 seems to be rear travel. The Meisters seem to have got this problem sorted out. I think that's why they are so popular. They are perfect straight out of the box.
There's nothing worse than bottoming out under compression like my old units did.
Very interesting to hear other people recommending koni and Gaz units.
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Post by lowender on May 25, 2018 20:18:47 GMT
Protech in Melksham will make shocks to your own spec regarding length, travel, valving etc. We got them to make several different sets for our space frame Bucklers, very helpful and enthusiastic. They do a MX5specific set made to order with your choice of spring rates and top mounts. When my P5 Sportdrives are no longer serviceable (they have their own seals which are, I think, irreplaceable now that P5 are sadly defunct), I shall keep the P5 pigtail springs, bumpstops and top mount arrangement, and get Protech to make me some new shocks. They can be 1- or 2-way adjustable. At least with company like this you can talk to them face to face, and even watch them whilst they build them. All their stuff is fully serviceable. No more expensive than the Far East generic offerings.
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Post by quinvy on May 25, 2018 20:57:02 GMT
That sounds fantastic, but I wouldn't know what to ask for. I only use my car on the road, and want comfort as well as good handling.
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Post by lowender on May 25, 2018 21:20:45 GMT
They list their MX5 offerings here: www.protechshocks.co.uk/products/mazda-mx5-shocks/Best spring rate for road use would be 350lbs front, 250lbs rear. It would also be worth upgrading to mk2 top mounts on a mk1 - they have better location and more bump travel, so you would order a set of shocks and springs for a mk2 and source some second hand mk2 top mounts and bump stops. Protech made the shocks for the highly regarded P5 Puredrive setup, P5 decided to make their own (Sportdrive) after problems with the adjusters seizing, an issue that Protech resolved some time ago now. |
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Post by quinvy on May 26, 2018 8:47:07 GMT
Thanks for the information, very interesting. I'm surprised they don't supply top mounts and bump stops with the units.
Isn't there a danger that second hand parts will be, well, knackered?
Are these units fully adjustable without scrabbling about under the car?
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Post by lowender on May 26, 2018 10:27:40 GMT
Mk2 top mounts are just pressed steel so don't really wear. New rubber bushes for them are quite cheap. Protech shock adjusters are at the bottom, so scrabbling required. However, once you've found the sweet spot, they won't really need adjusting further.
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Post by quinvy on May 26, 2018 13:01:03 GMT
Do you know anything about the standard Bilsteins that were fitted to some Eunos variants? Opinion seems to be they are too hard? I'm going to look at a car tomorrow which has these fitted, and I have never experienced them before.
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Post by wannabe on May 26, 2018 17:31:31 GMT
They list their MX5 offerings here: www.protechshocks.co.uk/products/mazda-mx5-shocks/Best spring rate for road use would be 350lbs front, 250lbs rear. It would also be worth upgrading to mk2 top mounts on a mk1 - they have better location and more bump travel, so you would order a set of shocks and springs for a mk2 and source some second hand mk2 top mounts and bump stops. Protech made the shocks for the highly regarded P5 Puredrive setup, P5 decided to make their own (Sportdrive) after problems with the adjusters seizing, an issue that Protech resolved some time ago now. Ooooh, thanks for posting the link  The ability to customise is cool! Would 350/250 f/r as mentioned be close to standard? The Mk2 OEM dampers with cut down OEM springs are a good bargain option and pretty comfortable while still being nicely firmly controlled, but they are a bit bouncy/jiggly at times lol. And it doesn't always feel as though all four corners are 'working as one'! I'm thinking I need a softer setup so it 'flows' better, but how does one achieve that while also having firmly controlled damping? Like French cars seem to be known for?? Suspension is a dark art...  lol |
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Post by wannabe on May 26, 2018 17:34:51 GMT
Do you know anything about the standard Bilsteins that were fitted to some Eunos variants? Opinion seems to be they are too hard? I'm going to look at a car tomorrow which has these fitted, and I have never experienced them before. I had yellow shocks on one end of mine when I bought it - I think they were Bilsteins  but the whole lot were so shagged that I was basically bumping off the bumpstops! HTH lol |
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Post by FFS Corders on May 26, 2018 18:11:25 GMT
The way I see it:
Get meisters if you just want it to work without having to put effort or thought in as they have set them up to be how the majority of owners want them straight out of the box. They are great shocks for road and trackdays plus if you get the extended adjusters it is easier to stiffen or soften them than others
Get Protech if you have a better idea of what you want and how it all works so you can specify it a bit more and have the ability to attach the bump stops and top mounts etc.
Gaz are a great option but slightly more track focused than meisters and will need a bit of adjusting to get how you want
Then if you have a large budget go for ohlins and bask in the glory of your choice
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Post by quinvy on May 26, 2018 18:59:24 GMT
I think that's very good advice. I went for Meisters on my last Mk1, and once I had softened them and had the car set up at Blink Motorsport they were superb.
But I only had the car for a short while, and the fact that some users are saying that they don't last very well could see me return to my hankering for some Ohlins. Has anyone on here got them fitted on a Mk1? Because the lack of rear travel on the Mk1 worries me.
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Post by baconsarnie on May 29, 2018 8:51:30 GMT
As far as spring rates go, fr350lb rr250lb is very low, even for 'duel duty' car... tyre technology has moved on a lot since those sort of spring rates were useful. I'd expect you would need a lot of damper travel and a big front ARB to avoid regularly hitting the bump stops and/or a oversteer bias.
I run the Ohlins DFV with fr570lb rr340lb springs with FEAL rear top hats, RB hollow front and 11mm rear ARB. The ride is plush. Rear travel has never been a concern - rear adjustablity was a problem to get the ride height low enough to achieve the camber I wanted for track use, however. Hence the FEAL top hats - these change the effective mounting position by about an inch lower so you aren't compromising bump travel for ride height a bit like using mk2 top hats (as per the basic Xidas).
Bottom line on rear travel is that if you are regularly blowing through 3" of travel on the rear (not all bump travel to be clear), you are either running too low spring rate or too low quality damper!
The Ohlins compared to Xida (or AST 'Zeedah') are limited in rear droop to be fair - this can exhibit itself in lifting a wheel in low speed highly cambered hairpins.
Out of the box the Ohlins are incredible, I've tailored mine to my specific use (hillclimbs). But the same would go for any 'high end' dampers (tho, as I hinted at before, this price point is actually kinda mid range in the scheme of things...)
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Post by NurseHolliday on May 29, 2018 10:48:16 GMT
Ohlins are incredible. Well worth the cash. I run AST dampers that are custom valved as per 949 racing Xidas. They like Ohlins are not cheap but you get what you pay for. The AST performance is fantastic on track. They are good on the road too but not quite as silky, finessed and plush as the Ohlins though. Re: the ASTs Youd never believe they are 700lb front spring and 400lb rear rates driving on them on the road. The damping adjustment is just superb. Id say as a competition car damper the ASTs are spot on as are the Ohlins . The Ohlins would be my pick if I was buying soley for road with a few trackdays. Must be the best all rounder out there. Which ASTs do you have? I'm pretty good friends with one of the Marketing guys who works there and he keeps offering me mates rates on a set, which would still make them a little out of my reach at the moment, but I'm working towards getting a set. Can I quote your setup when I finally get round to him making me a set? I know they only do 5100s out of the box for MX5s but another of my friends (with basically unlimited money) had a set custom built for his MX5. I'd like to know where that car and suspension setup ended up. |
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Post by NurseHolliday on May 29, 2018 10:51:38 GMT
The limiting factor with the Mk1 seems to be rear travel. The Meisters seem to have got this problem sorted out. I think that's why they are so popular. They are perfect straight out of the box. There's nothing worse than bottoming out under compression like my old units did. Very interesting to hear other people recommending koni and Gaz units. You can buy these extended rear top mounts from Flyin' Miata: www.flyinmiata.com/1990-97-flyin-miata-rear-shock-mounts.htmlI had them on an old MX5, that I more and more regret selling. |
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lol
but the whole lot were so shagged that I was basically bumping off the bumpstops!
le sigh