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Post by atlex on May 5, 2020 9:36:51 GMT
Awesome progress those ITBS lined up rather well with the mani wow :-)
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Post by Bilbo on May 5, 2020 10:13:39 GMT
Well if I knew you had a whole Daytona I would have asked what TPS harness colour went to what TPS sensor wire colour haha! Because I spent ages finding a wiring diagram for one, only to find it doesn't even show the TPS sensor side anyway! Figured it out now through the joys of trial and error haha. Well, at least you have a load of random spares I guess, always handy. I've also got the Triumph workshop manual.... so... #12 is the tps. but its linked to the coolant sensor (for earth?) #15 unsure if this is of ant help though also, something to consider (& my thoughts not exactly official...) is that motorcycles rarely have small throttle openings - maybe your tps(s) have dirty tracks if not possibly they may have no usable readings except wot etc. Rich. Thanks mate, I do actually have the entire wiring diagram that I obtained, erm... legally let's say haha. Basically that all makes sense, but I still don't know which wire on the TPS is which (TPS sensor wires are different colour to the loom in the diagrams), I've had to guess. Maybe that's why my TPS signal is a little odd. If you have a full loom handy from the bike you have, could you check for me? I'd really appreciate a photo of the loom plug to see which wires goes to which on the TPS! Thanks!
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Post by Bilbo on May 5, 2020 10:14:17 GMT
Awesome progress those ITBS lined up rather well with the mani wow :-) Cheers mate, they really did line up nicely!
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Post by Zed. on May 5, 2020 12:12:09 GMT
If you have a full loom handy from the bike you have, could you check for me? I'd really appreciate a photo of the loom plug to see which wires goes to which on the TPS! I'll have to dig the engine out as its in the back of one of my Discovery's (bikes in bits, touching-up frame paint so engine out) I actually have a spare engine in the shed but I'm unsure if theres a loom on it and yes, I have too many toys & too much stuff Rich.
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Post by Zed. on May 5, 2020 13:51:18 GMT
okey... in their natural habbitat (well, less the bike ) the throttle position wiring, interestingly the other (throttle-damper or whatever the auxuliary butterflies are?) sensor has the same wire-colours to a white plug then diferent traces into the sub-loom.. so... engine loom-tps. green/yellow-yellow. pink-black. pink/black-blue. Rich.
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Post by josho on May 5, 2020 16:11:08 GMT
For the throttle quadrant/wheel, when I did Daytona itbs on my old car I took the one off the Mazda tb and drilled it out to go on the Daytona spindle and had my mate tack weld the two wheels together, giving oem movement on the pedal, I did find that the throttle was stupidly light, I was silly and just left it and got used to it, but if I were to do it again I'd add a couple old style return springs on the pedal or the throttle wheel!
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Post by Bilbo on May 5, 2020 16:37:48 GMT
okey... in their natural habbitat (well, less the bike ) the throttle position wiring, interestingly the other (throttle-damper or whatever the auxuliary butterflies are?) sensor has the same wire-colours to a white plug then diferent traces into the sub-loom.. so... engine loom-tps. green/yellow-yellow. pink-black. pink/black-blue. Rich. Mate, thank you so much. I've got the wiring diagram, but without seeing which colour goes to which on the TPS connector I was never going to know. I searched for hours to find even one photo or forum thread that showed it, but nothing haha. I believe I've worked out that pink is 5v, pink/black is ground, and green yellow is definitely the signal/wiper. If that is the case it means I have every wire connected wrong to the MX-5 TPS loom lol 😂 Thanks again, going to go sort it now.
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Post by Bilbo on May 5, 2020 16:39:08 GMT
For the throttle quadrant/wheel, when I did Daytona itbs on my old car I took the one off the Mazda tb and drilled it out to go on the Daytona spindle and had my mate tack weld the two wheels together, giving oem movement on the pedal, I did find that the throttle was stupidly light, I was silly and just left it and got used to it, but if I were to do it again I'd add a couple old style return springs on the pedal or the throttle wheel! Cheers for that mate, Lance who's build is on here with Daytona bodies did roughly the same as you, and told me about it. I may have got a little ahead of myself and bolted them in before I remembered haha. For testing the start and running I'll keep as is, but for driving I reckon adapting it will be a much better solution.
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Post by Zed. on May 5, 2020 19:10:49 GMT
For the throttle quadrant/wheel, when I did Daytona itbs on my old car I took the one off the Mazda tb and drilled it out to go on the Daytona spindle and had my mate tack weld the two wheels together, giving oem movement on the pedal, I did find that the throttle was stupidly light, I was silly and just left it and got used to it, but if I were to do it again I'd add a couple old style return springs on the pedal or the throttle wheel! Cheers for that mate, Lance who's build is on here with Daytona bodies did roughly the same as you, and told me about it. I may have got a little ahead of myself and bolted them in before I remembered haha. For testing the start and running I'll keep as is, but for driving I reckon adapting it will be a much better solution. thats sorta what I'm doing on the Gsxr / Hayabusa tb's, best to have return springs on the tb's & mainly on the throttle-cable end (otherwise messes up the ballance & can 'twist' the spindles ) amusingly, after I dug through the Disco to take those photo's I found the tb's from my spare Daytona 600 engine that also have the loom attached for the record, the Daytona 600 that had these tb's was only made for a year, believe the same setup was used on the 650 for l a ittle longer ('05-'07?) but theres the more common TT600 ('00-'03?) & Speed4 that had seperate tb's without injector mounts or the secondary butterflies (from ~'02-'04 seperate & '04-'06? for the siameese tb's) And a set of similar sized (dimensionally identical) tb's from a Ninja 600 that I'd bought a few years ago to use on the Eunos - before deciding on the larger Hayabusa tb's Rich.
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Post by Bilbo on May 6, 2020 0:30:59 GMT
Cheers for that mate, Lance who's build is on here with Daytona bodies did roughly the same as you, and told me about it. I may have got a little ahead of myself and bolted them in before I remembered haha. For testing the start and running I'll keep as is, but for driving I reckon adapting it will be a much better solution. thats sorta what I'm doing on the Gsxr / Hayabusa tb's, best to have return springs on the tb's & mainly on the throttle-cable end (otherwise messes up the ballance & can 'twist' the spindles ) amusingly, after I dug through the Disco to take those photo's I found the tb's from my spare Daytona 600 engine that also have the loom attached for the record, the Daytona 600 that had these tb's was only made for a year, believe the same setup was used on the 650 for l a ittle longer ('05-'07?) but theres the more common TT600 ('00-'03?) & Speed4 that had seperate tb's without injector mounts or the secondary butterflies (from ~'02-'04 seperate & '04-'06? for the siameese tb's) And a set of similar sized (dimensionally identical) tb's from a Ninja 600 that I'd bought a few years ago to use on the Eunos - before deciding on the larger Hayabusa tb's Rich. Christ, sounds like you've got/had quite the collection of them haha! Yeah that's one thing I noticed, the Daytona 600 had a pretty short production run, so forum info on it seems to be a bit more scarce than a lot of other bikes. Had a quick search and it seems Jenvey do, or at least did, a kit with Hayabusa ITBs. Can't see why any 4 cylinder throttle bodies wouldn't work to be honest, as long as port sizes and spacing are reasonable.
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Post by Bilbo on May 6, 2020 0:45:20 GMT
So, I made some more progress today. Thanks to Zed I could figure out the wiring for the TPS. My guess from the wiring diagram was that black on the TPS was for 5v live, and blue was ground. Seemed odd, but I'm not a pro with wiring diagrams. So I got yellow connected to the signal wire, and it was giving signal nicely, but it was backwards. So black was ground after all. I must admit I was initially a bit pissed thinking that someone would use a black wire for the 5v and not the ground haha. If anyone else uses Daytona 600 throttle bodies and the original vTPS that comes with them on a standard mk1 1.6 TPS loom, the wiring order is as follows: TPS - Engine loomBlue - Red Black - Black Yellow - Greeny yellow one (the one that isn't red or black, work it out yourself haha) Got it connected up and it calibrated beautifully, a nice low ADC count on no throttle input, and a nice high reading on wide open throttle input. Perfect. The day before with my incorrect wiring it seemed to max out to 100% really easily, and wouldn't read tiny inputs properly at all, which would cause a nightmare for working in Alpha N. Much much better start and rev attempt today: Still running pig rich, but all in good time. Datalogs are showing all sensors working that I need to work. I haven't managed to run it up to temperature yet due to the idle wanting to sit at, or below, 400rpm. I will adjust the bypass screws to allow more airflow, and balance the throttle bodies with the synchrometer. Only issue is due to me flipping the throttle bodies over for easier TPS and throttle cable paths, it does mean the idle screws are now underneath, going to be a bit of a fiddle to get to them, but shouldn't need to do it often, so it'll be alright I reckon. Also, thanks to Scottydugg I now have a nice stainless system on the way to me, which is built to incorporate a 370mm cat delete into the midpipe. Previously fitted to a BRSCC race car, so should be a nice improvement over this Malian lol.
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Post by Zed. on May 6, 2020 9:34:33 GMT
Christ, sounds like you've got/had quite the collection of them haha! and 2 sets of Hayabusa itb's..... somebody stop me anyway... in the latest vid, you say its rich on idle, when you rev it it sounds like its going weak (or is that where the map ends?) Rich.
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Post by Bilbo on May 6, 2020 23:00:08 GMT
Christ, sounds like you've got/had quite the collection of them haha! and 2 sets of Hayabusa itb's..... somebody stop me anyway... in the latest vid, you say its rich on idle, when you rev it it sounds like its going weak (or is that where the map ends?) Rich. Yeah I noticed the change in sound too, not sure if it's something resonating in the throttle bodies or what, little datalog I ran didn't show it lean out badly, it did lean slightly to a more acceptable AFR than idle though. Potentially spark table related, I'll need to look into it more. The VE table I have configured to go to 7200rpm, and limiter is currently set to 6000, just so it can't run away in the event of some form of failure when initially starting and testing. In the video I only took it to around 3,800rpm as the car wasn't warmed up, and the tune is still large unknown beyond small throttle inputs.
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Post by Bilbo on May 6, 2020 23:17:36 GMT
So a little more progress this evening. I got my throttle cable attached, though it ideally needs a little work and I could do with repositioning the bracket that holds the outer cable on. We'll see if it works. With engine off I gave the throttle a burst of quick sharp taps, and it seems to be happy enough, so it'll do for initial testing purposes I suppose. I'm probably going to remove it and order a custom made cable to fit exactly as I need, but we'll see how we get on. I then tested the wide open throttle position, and was concerned when I noticed when burying the throttle, the throttle stop on the ITBs was being hit before the throttle stop on the throttle pedal itself. This obviously won't do as it will either lead to a ton of strain on the throttle pulley on the side of the ITBs, or more likely a snapped cable. So I got down into the driver's side footwell (there is literally no elegant way to do this with a seat in the car haha!), and had a look at what was going on. It appears that the bracket that holds the throttle stopper bolt in is kinked slightly, meaning the bolt is actually skimming the side of the pedal rather than hitting it. No idea how long it has been like that for, probably from when my mate gave it hell at Santa Pod with hundreds of hard clutch kicks and throttle stamps haha! So I removed the throttle stop bolt, and found another with exactly the same thread pitch (I didn't want to damage the original with my new plan). Due to the lack of thread where the bolt sticks through, sticking 2 nuts on the end and tightening them to each other was not an option. So I found a nut with a different thread pitch to the bolt, and I forced it on the end tight. Sounds a bit Roadkill I know, but it worked perfectly, it isn't going anywhere. As you can see this has essentially made the throttle stopper much wider on the end, which means the throttle pedal can contact it again, rather than missing it entirely. I adjusted it little by little, and now I have it bolted down and set so that even with heavy force applied to the throttle, the throttle stop on the ITB side will never bare the brunt. Also had a little feel underneath the throttle bodies, and with trumpets removed I should be able to access the idle bypass screws with a little bit of fiddling around. I'll have a crack at this tomorrow, and will try to get them adjusted so the idle is somewhere sane (not 400rpm!), and I will then balance them with the synchrometer.
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Post by wannabe on May 6, 2020 23:37:51 GMT
Top work! I recall getting slightly high from the smell of unburnt petrol on our run to buy a battery in your previous 5... lol
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